Home Forums Miscellaneous The Battlefront Tragic story–PLEASE READ!

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  • rouser
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    Quote by: LoneWolf130

    First of all I’m going to make it clear that I am not taking sides at this point because I don’t know all the facts. Now if we take this story at face value then how can you say he was defending himself when it clearly says the dog was chasing turkeys? Next, for those of you that feel the “guide” was completely in his rights to destroy another man’s property (the dog) just because it was in his way (screwing up his hunt) then why don’t I throw this out to you. You are driving down the road and your truck breaks down. To get it off of the traveled portion of the road you pull into a convenient field drive. You call a wrecker to come get your truck and a friend to pick you up and take you back home. Now I come along (oops, I forgot to mention that it’s my field drive) and I want to get into my field, but your property (your truck) in screwing up my ability to access my ground. I guess by your logic then it is completely ok for me to destroy your truck with my tractor to get it out of my way. No real difference here except with the dog we are talking about a living creature and member of someone’s family and your truck is just a material possesion.

    I can’t resist a response to your analogy….

    An altercation had previously taken place where the dog owner was aware of his dogs roaming and actions… I would equate that to my truck would have previously broke down in front of your field accesses and you damaged my vehicle previously because it was in your way….

    With that in mind.. if my truck broke down again I would make darned sure I did not pull into one of your drives because history has proven that you aren’t all that sympathetic to my broke down truck situation. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    We don’t know all the facts, which is something I think we all agree on. What we do know from the original poster is this was not the first altercation. We don’t know if the owner took additional steps to secure the dog. We don’t know if the “guide” had spoken to the dog owner previously to ask the owner to please contain his dog from coming onto his hunting ground. We don’t know a lot of things about things which led up to this.

    I’m not willing to hang this “guide” out to dry based on one half of the story and some Internet posts… God only know how things get twisted on Internet forums! I do feel for a family who has lost their pet, it is hard to lose them. Nobody won with the actions taken. A family lost their pet and it is likely this guide has lost or will lose business based on his actions… he most certainly is getting attention in the way he most likely didn’t want.

    vrod
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    Quote by: LoneWolf130

    First of all I’m going to make it clear that I am not taking sides at this point because I don’t know all the facts. Now if we take this story at face value then how can you say he was defending himself when it clearly says the dog was chasing turkeys? Next, for those of you that feel the “guide” was completely in his rights to destroy another man’s property (the dog) just because it was in his way (screwing up his hunt) then why don’t I throw this out to you. You are driving down the road and your truck breaks down. To get it off of the traveled portion of the road you pull into a convenient field drive. You call a wrecker to come get your truck and a friend to pick you up and take you back home. Now I come along (oops, I forgot to mention that it’s my field drive) and I want to get into my field, but your property (your truck) in screwing up my ability to access my ground. I guess by your logic then it is completely ok for me to destroy your truck with my tractor to get it out of my way. No real difference here except with the dog we are talking about a living creature and member of someone’s family and your truck is just a material possesion.

    The property does not start until the fence.Not the same thing.Now if you drove across his corn field and broke down on his property,game on.

    LoneWolf130
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    Quote by: vrod

    Quote by: LoneWolf130

    First of all I’m going to make it clear that I am not taking sides at this point because I don’t know all the facts. Now if we take this story at face value then how can you say he was defending himself when it clearly says the dog was chasing turkeys? Next, for those of you that feel the “guide” was completely in his rights to destroy another man’s property (the dog) just because it was in his way (screwing up his hunt) then why don’t I throw this out to you. You are driving down the road and your truck breaks down. To get it off of the traveled portion of the road you pull into a convenient field drive. You call a wrecker to come get your truck and a friend to pick you up and take you back home. Now I come along (oops, I forgot to mention that it’s my field drive) and I want to get into my field, but your property (your truck) in screwing up my ability to access my ground. I guess by your logic then it is completely ok for me to destroy your truck with my tractor to get it out of my way. No real difference here except with the dog we are talking about a living creature and member of someone’s family and your truck is just a material possesion.

    The property does not start until the fence.Not the same thing.Now if you drove across his corn field and broke down on his property,game on.

    I didn’t say that you did not pull in past the fence line now did I?

    jason34
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    Who’s smarter man or dog?

    Some are saying shoot the dog because it won’t stay off a property. Anyone been hunting, say deer, and had the same person tresspass after being warned? Running off game animals. Shoot them, hope not, because it’s against the law and morally just not right. I’ll just stop here till all the facts are in.

    Lonestar
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    I think the analogy would be more like this:

    Anyone been hunting, say deer, and had the same person with alzheimers tresspass after being warned? Running off game animals. Shoot them, hope not, because it’s against the law and morally just not right.

    nitro
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    Quote by: Lonestar

    I think the analogy would be more like this:

    Anyone been hunting, say deer, and had the same person with alzheimers tresspass after being warned? Running off game animals. Shoot them, hope not, because it’s against the law and morally just not right.

    Alzheimers? 😕 what does that have to do with anything…? does the dog now have alzheimers?

    LJ-Iowa
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    This guy had no right to shoot the dog, end of story. It’s already been stated that the dog wasn’t attacking anybody or putting anyone in danger so why the heck do you need to shoot someones pet? Alot of ways to handle the situation and this guy was an idiot by doing something so boneheaded and should pay the consequences.

    Lonestar
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    Quote by: nitro

    Quote by: Lonestar

    I think the analogy would be more like this:

    Anyone been hunting, say deer, and had the same person with alzheimers tresspass after being warned? Running off game animals. Shoot them, hope not, because it’s against the law and morally just not right.

    Alzheimers? 😕 what does that have to do with anything…? does the dog now have alzheimers?

    That’s what I’m saying ;).

    I was just pointing out that it usually takes multiple corrections for a dog to realize what it shouldn’t be doing and what it should be doing. A person on the other hand only needs to hear the words “Get off my Property” once to know what it means unless they don’t remember being told.

    katman_iowa
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    Made it past 6, still not locked!

    Ok, here’s my stance on the situation…

    I’ve had some time to calm down over this mess. Maybe my friends were partially responsible for their dog’s death. But keep in mind, the first time the dog was shot, they didn’t know where or how it happened. The only reason they know this same guy shot it the first time was him admitting it. My friend happened to see the guy leaving after killing his dog and confronted him. Now, if the guide had an issue with the dog, then contact the DNR about it. My friend and his family are die hard hunters and would probably be understanding of their dog causing problems for the guide and take care of the problem. I appreciate those of you that have given your opinions without jumping down my throat. Jardan, I also appreciate everything you’ve said.

    mhammell
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    My friend posted this story about my dog, Nemo. We are not sure if the wound Nemo sustained was from a shot or something he got into, but we were very cautious about him running around after that incident. We live in a valley out in the country, and what few neighbors we do have know our dog and don’t mind him being out. We put a shock collar on him to use if he started taking off after deer or running into the woods where we couldn’t see him because we did not want him to get shot again if that is what happened the first time. The day he was killed he had his collar on but the battery had died so my husband was unable to get him to come back. Shortly after he took off up the hill behind our house we heard two gunshots. When my husband reached the top of the hill he found our dog, shot and lying on the ground. The man said it was because of chasing turkeys and that he’d kill our Lhasa Opso if he saw her up there too.

    bowtechbandit
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    well, it IS just the guys word that the dog was actually running game, but, if the dog was running game, that is what will happen to it. the dog could have ended up getting mauled by coyotes, or having a run it with a rabid coon. people need to learn to keep their dogs confined to their property. just because your neighbors didn’t mind your dog coming over for a visit doesn’t change the fact that it is wrong to allow your dog to freely roam the country side. the shock collar is only good if you catch the dog leaving your property, or you catch him in the act of doing wrong. there are invisible fence collars, but even with those, there is the chance for electronic failiure, or batteries wearing out. if you own a dog, it is your responsibility to make sure your dog is kept home. lets say the dog was hit by a car, you aren’t going to sue the driver. yes, the man made a conscious descision to shoot the dog. but, as i said in an earlier post, call the sherrif, and DNR in your area, tell him there is a dog in your area running free and chasing game. you will be told that your only option, if the owner won’t keep the dog confined to his property, is to shoot it.

    HoytHunter
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    If the dog was running game and was not on the property owned by the dogs owner, even as sad as it is, the hunter was jjustified IMO. This may be a case of a habitual offender. I have seen this same type of situation happen out in the rural area where I grew up. People moved out to that area and thought, hey we moved to Green Acres, we can let our dogs run free. That was all fine and good until the dogs experienced the thrill of chasing some area farmers livestock. Any of you with dogs may know that something like this, or chasing cars can be hard to break them of. the dogs eventually were shot at as warnings but if let out off chains by the owners, would quickly cross fences and begin chase. I am new to the site and have no clue to whom this person that did the shooting is, but maybe there is more to it and it wasn’t to far out of line. Just my opinion….

    iowavf
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    Legal or not, I personaly think it says alot about a person’s caricature who would shoot a dog that he knows is a family pet over a turkey or other game instead of making a phone call.

    katman_iowa
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    Thank you, iowavf. Apparently, this guy has offered to buy a new dog for the family, but he was sarcastic about it, showing no signs of remorse over what he did.

    HoytHunter
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    Quote by: iowavf

    Legal or not, I personaly think it says alot about a person’s caricature who would shoot a dog that he knows is a family pet over a turkey or other game instead of making a phone call.

    Very true, but even the most rational people can do irrational things at times. I wonder if the dog onwer had been notified previously of offenses of the dog. It sounded like it, as I think I remember a post saying the dog had been shot at before. I understand this is and can be a touchy subject and not trying to stir the pot, it sounds as if some people have first hand knowledge of the hunter in this case and don’t think much of his character anyway, that means something too. In a general situation though, I believe the dog owner does own some of the responsability for what happened. The dog should have been chained or fenced in some way, maybe even one of those invisible fences. A friend did the invisible fence for his short hair after it was shot with a .22 when chasing a neibors sheep, and that did the trick. I had an experience this past fall while bowhunting. I had been hunting hard, but had not been able to close the deal on a few nice bucks I had been seeing. i finally had it all coming together one nice November afternoon when I had 2 shooters heading my way trailing a doe. they were coming like they were on strings and folowing the doe, just needed them to come about another 25 yards closer for a good shot. Just then their ears wnet up and they went on allert. then I heard it, some a-hole on a quad runner on the ridge about 100 yards behind me, where no one was allowed to be on a quad….nor should any one be besides me and the landowner with a quad. Off ran all three deer. I was HOT, and I climed down and marched right over there and was going to thrash the rider. Never caught him, but found out a couple of months later who it was, gave him hell then, but kept it civil. I think of my self pretty rational, but if the quad was a dog in my situation, it would have been able to live another day, unless it was an ongoing problem that the dog owner did nothing about, then I am not sure what would happen.

    [email protected]
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    Quote by: YellowDawg

    Quote by: DougU

    Quote by: jardan

    Folks we have had heated debates similar to this many times in the past. As has been said we don’t know all of the story as far as who’s property the dog was on whether it be public or private. From what has been posted the dog was chasing some turkeys possibly not on the dog owners property. Was this dog being a threat to the person who shot it as far as I have read it was not but then again I do not know all of the details.
    How many dog owners have had there dogs get loose from their yard even though you have taken appropriate steps to keep it in the yard. It happens. Personally I would not have shot the dog unless it was threatening me or my family. I try to put myself in some one else’s shoes and ask how I would feel if my pet or dog was shot. Obviously this person made a poor decision when he pulled the trigger. Since this person and the dog had a previous history he should have not done what he did. Was getting a turkey or a paycheck really worth it. His actions will surely hurt his business if not cause him to close it down.
    While I might be an Admin I am still a member of IO and just a person that still feels that I should be able to have a say just as all of you. Thanks for reading my post and I hope it gives us all small pause to think.

    Danny

    Jardan has made an excellent point. While each of us makes our own decisions, we need to think before we act. How does this make us (the individual) look? Now take that to the next level which is how does this make “US” (as in outdoorsmen, hunters, etc.) look. Can’t we see that behavior like this damages our credibility? We have a man apparently breaking the law and we have folks defending committing a felony. :question: :question: :question: :question: :question:

    See now you are assuming what he did was a felony. If this dog was attacking him it wasn’t a felony. I defended that we don’t know the entire story. Also I still think as a dog owner it was up to them to keep this dog off the property. It wasn’t like it was the first time.

    Now like Jardan said dogs can get out and crap happens. all the way around this is just a bad situation. We don’t know all the info so it is hard to take a stand either way.

    You know what…………..your right …..we don’t know all the facts. Now were in the battelfront I’ll post what i edited and you can take it however you want. I asked….yes physically asked several law enforcement officers about the shooting a PET!!! ( it is convienient as I work with them) The consensus was if you don’t have proof that you were physically endangered you will be charged under the recent Animal Cruelty Act.

    katman_iowa
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    That’s great to hear, Doug. There is no proof/reason to believe that Mr. “[email protected]#$%^n” was at all threatened by this animal. I’m sorry if some of you know this guy, but he may not be the person you think he is.

    dogdown
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    It is illegal in the state of iowa for someone to interfer with another’s legal hunt, would this not apply to someone’s pet running at-large?

    LoneWolf130
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    Quote by: dogdown

    It is illegal in the state of iowa for someone to interfer with another’s legal hunt, would this not apply to someone’s pet running at-large?

    So by your definition of that law, if I coming wandering into an area you are hunting (and yes, we BOTH have permission to be there), not knowing you are there just as you are lining up for a shot at a once in a lifetime buck and he spooks and runs off ruining your shot, then you believe that you should be able to call the authorities and have me charged with interferring with your legal hunt?

    katman_iowa
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    I would say yes, guilty…at least 20-25 years, hard time. We have plenty of empty spots in our penitentiary’s! 🙄

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