Home Forums Hunting Firearms Legislation Florida mass shooting

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  • Avatarmhock
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    Post count: 3353

    It’s easy to say this should not be politicized, but it’s nearly impossible. We all get put into boxes… pigeon-holes. We ALL have beliefs, but they vary greatly. There are gun lovers and gun haters, both Democrats and Republican, God fearing and athiest, gay or straight, black and white, men and women. We come from a very diverse populous. Agreeing on something is nearly impossible. That’s the American experiment. Not everyone that wants some gun restrictions is out to take our freedoms away. Not everyone that is a staunch gun ownership advocate is wanting every citizen to be armed, no matter their mental state.

    As lew touched on earlier, the “State” has been grooming us for many many years to focus on our differences to keep us divided and blaming each other while they us our division to get into and stay in power to “nudge” us into doing this or that or “feeling” they are helping us to get to this utopian society where we have no worries or needs. Don’t be sheeple and follow the masses on this. Bring open and thoughtful discussion. Discussion involves listening. Actual listening is becoming an endangered activity. You don’t have to listen when you post something to social media. You don’t even have to listen in here, though, I believe many of us do take to heart what others bloviate in here, myself included.

    It won’t be Washington that comes up with any real solutions. It will happen when we start to listen to each other.

    Someone that would do this does not value human life. To me, that’s the only disqualifer to being part of the experiment.

    Avatarnorthwoodsbucks
    Participant
    Post count: 1519

    Quote by: cage

    The base problem is that so many people are willing to kill others. The government has systematically removed all church influence from the school system. Add to that teaching scientology, where the strongest and most powerful survive with little or no compassion, or respect for others. With no respect, love, or fear of God. No fear or thought of afterlife and or Hell. They apparently have concern for only moment, and any fame ( not the best word to use) or notoriety. I fear the trend will continue. Until the system is able and allowed to teach respect, and that each person is responsible for their own actions, choices,and the consequences of them, that things will only get worse. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected.

    I am pretty sure they do not teach Scientology in any public schools. Scientology is a religion created in the 50s by L. Ron Hubbard.

    If your problem is with teaching science in school that is just plain silly.

    As for lack of religion being the problem there has been a heck of a lot of violence done in the name of many religions, including Christianity.

    Avatardrmac22
    Participant
    Post count: 1909

    I was not going to weigh in but I feel strongly that something must be done. I Do not blame any gun.. The gun is simply a tool.. Could have easily pulled the alarm and then ran down the kids in the parking lot with a car. People are affixed to the AR and blame it, to me as I said its just a tool. in a different platform like say a Ruger Mini-14 it looks nothing like an AR, wood stock 20 round cap.. same .Cal just looks different. Its Ok to hunt with those and shoot target with them because they look normal or what people see as Normal. I steer away from saying its the gun. So what is it? To me its Mental Health, I am willing to bet that most if not all these kind of shooters are on Anti-Depressant drugs or some kind of a drug for something. He had a history already that people saw and did nothing about.. So it was only a matter of time before it went this way. I am also in favor of Having Armed security and allowing Teacher, properly trained teacher, to conceal carry. Here’s my thought on this. It’s Like Nuclear deterant.. We don’t start stuff with each other because we know the other has a Nuke so we play nice. If you have a handful of teachers along with security armed and trained, the kids do not know who has the guns. They are risking being shot the minute they pull out their own gun to start this. If the football coach that was killed in Florida, was CC he could have been a Weapon not just a Shield and maybe stopped this kid before so much life was lost. I am sick as anyone that this stuff continues to happen and I do believe what Llewellin is saying.. The fabric of our Nation has changed.. When I was a kid we always brought our guns to school in our cars or trucks so we could go hunting after class. There were NEVER school shootings. Nobody went and got their gun if they had a fight. They just delt with it via fist to cuffs. We have moved away from the golden rule and earning what you get. Now everyone gets participation awards for nothing simply because we are afraid they might get their feelings hurt. If you were not good enough you didnt make the team.. You worked hard and tried again next season. You Respected people. Today there is no respect for anyone else. Its always me first… I know the world is not perfect, but dang we have to work harder at being better to each other. Give more then you get and always stay humble.

    WhipWhip
    Participant
    Post count: 2363

    This is a truly a tragedy with no single easy solution. My thoughts today are we have to come up with some reasonable approach.

    Whip

    llewellinsetterllewellinsetter
    Blocked
    Post count: 2514

    Quote by: Whip

    a national guardsmen at the front door of every school in America

    The idea that people want to live this way is insane to me. Might as well move to North Korea as this is what kind of government these types of decisions lead to.

    Sarcasm entails a few things: one of them is intellect, another one is a sense of humor, and a third - not taking things too personally.

    AvatarBrownItsDown
    Participant
    Post count: 1066

    Quote by: fowl_attitude

    Following the discussion here. There are a lot of good points. As a teacher I have been through a relatively new training called ALICE. It is completely different than what we have done for many, many years. For many years we were told to turn off the lights , lock you door and wait quietly. This does nothing but make you a sitting duck. We actually practiced this during the ALICE training with our sheriffs department. It is an unbelievably unnerving thing to hear the threat coming down the hallway and be told you are not to do anything. And yet, that is the policy for most schools. I always thought that was stupid since I have ground level windows. Why would I not take my students out to safety? With the new training, we are now given that option if we think it is the best option. We are also given the option to “fight back”. Use what ever you have to throw or distract. I teach science. I have all kinds of goodies that could be used. Research shows that in these cases shooters move to the easiest targets because they know their time is limited to inflict the damage. We are now told to do what we think is the best for our students. But this is not the training most teachers receive. Most are told to sit and wait. Someone mentioned making doors open inwards. Doors can be kicked in and you don’t have time to move desks or file cabinets in the way. Or the teacher may not be physically able to move something. The solution is a door closer lock. A simple tube that slides over the closer from inside the classroom so the door can not be opened from the outside, even if they have a key. I made some out of PVC, painted them red, and gave them to anyone that wanted one. School resource officers are already used in many larger schools. But with a large school, that means even their response time can be a minute as he gets from one end of the building to the other. What about utilizing teachers who have served in the military? I have 4 colleagues who served in the Afgan or Irag. If anyone is trained to deal with the pressure situation like this, it is them. My point, is there are some options out there.

    You’re right, previous policy did turn you all into sitting ducks. I’m glad they’ve changed that. Good input!

    smokepolesmokepole
    Participant
    Post count: 255

    Quote by: fowl_attitude

    Following the discussion here. There are a lot of good points. As a teacher I have been through a relatively new training called ALICE. It is completely different than what we have done for many, many years. For many years we were told to turn off the lights , lock you door and wait quietly. This does nothing but make you a sitting duck. We actually practiced this during the ALICE training with our sheriffs department. It is an unbelievably unnerving thing to hear the threat coming down the hallway and be told you are not to do anything. And yet, that is the policy for most schools. I always thought that was stupid since I have ground level windows. Why would I not take my students out to safety? With the new training, we are now given that option if we think it is the best option. We are also given the option to “fight back”. Use what ever you have to throw or distract. I teach science. I have all kinds of goodies that could be used. Research shows that in these cases shooters move to the easiest targets because they know their time is limited to inflict the damage. We are now told to do what we think is the best for our students. But this is not the training most teachers receive. Most are told to sit and wait. Someone mentioned making doors open inwards. Doors can be kicked in and you don’t have time to move desks or file cabinets in the way. Or the teacher may not be physically able to move something. The solution is a door closer lock. A simple tube that slides over the closer from inside the classroom so the door can not be opened from the outside, even if they have a key. I made some out of PVC, painted them red, and gave them to anyone that wanted one. School resource officers are already used in many larger schools. But with a large school, that means even their response time can be a minute as he gets from one end of the building to the other. What about utilizing teachers who have served in the military? I have 4 colleagues who served in the Afgan or Irag. If anyone is trained to deal with the pressure situation like this, it is them. My point, is there are some options out there.

    Those are some great points and some great ideas. Working with local law enforcement instead of federal bureaucrats is definitely a step in the right direction. If this psycho new there were going to be armed resistance at the school I doubt you would have ever tried this.

    AvatarBrownItsDown
    Participant
    Post count: 1066

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: Whip

    a national guardsmen at the front door of every school in America

    The idea that people want to live this way is insane to me. Might as well move to North Korea as this is what kind of government these types of decisions lead to.

    If used in conjunction with other implemented strategies, I could actually get behind this idea. As long as it stopped there with government involvement in our public schools. Comparing this idea to living in NK is ridiculous llewellinsetter, but I think you already knew that.

    Avatarrericsson
    Participant
    Post count: 1002

    🙁

    So sad it has become common place in America to have mass shootings. We have become numb to these atrocities. Mental health in our country is not the only answer, but it is one part that needs to be addressed. Our society has many problems and it seems like the prevalence of these shootings speaks volumes about our countries disease.

    WE have many mentally sick people and how do you identify and correct there problems before they act out in anger, and fear and kill innocent children and adults. It is so sad we have this occuring. Not sure how we help these sick people so we have people remain safe in our churches, schools and at our shopping malls. God what a different America nowadays. robbie

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: Whip

    a national guardsmen at the front door of every school in America

    The idea that people want to live this way is insane to me. Might as well move to North Korea as this is what kind of government these types of decisions lead to.

    None of us have said we WANT to live this way. I put it forward as a deterrent until a better plan to deal with the true problem, mental health is put into place. A visible guardman may help until that day.

    medicdanomedicdano
    Participant
    Post count: 4985

    Quote by: nahdogg

    The shooter was 19, age of ownership in Florida is 18. He could have bought the gun last week. ATF to make a statement today or tomorrow on lineage of gun.

    My mistake. I thought I read he was 17.

    llewellinsetterllewellinsetter
    Blocked
    Post count: 2514

    Quote by: BrownItsDown As long as it stopped there with government involvement in our public schools. Comparing this idea to living in NK is ridiculous llewellinsetter, but I think you already knew that.

    It doesn’t stop there, it NEVER stops there, thus my point of NK or any other communist/marxist/socialist country in history. It’s a slow burn, a very slow burn and you’re either choosing to not understand world history or just too near sited to see it happening.

    Sarcasm entails a few things: one of them is intellect, another one is a sense of humor, and a third - not taking things too personally.

    llewellinsetterllewellinsetter
    Blocked
    Post count: 2514

    Quote by: mhock

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: Whip

    a national guardsmen at the front door of every school in America

    The idea that people want to live this way is insane to me. Might as well move to North Korea as this is what kind of government these types of decisions lead to.

    None of us have said we WANT to live this way. I put it forward as a deterrent until a better plan to deal with the true problem, mental health is put into place. A visible guardman may help until that day.

    Um, if you suggest it, and others agree with that suggestion, then you certainly think it’s a viable solution.

    If I don’t want something I don’t do it for a while because I think it might be a temporary solution/bandaid. I simply don’t do it, because I know that temporary solution usually morphs into it’s own problem.

    Sarcasm entails a few things: one of them is intellect, another one is a sense of humor, and a third - not taking things too personally.

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: mhock

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: Whip

    a national guardsmen at the front door of every school in America

    The idea that people want to live this way is insane to me. Might as well move to North Korea as this is what kind of government these types of decisions lead to.

    None of us have said we WANT to live this way. I put it forward as a deterrent until a better plan to deal with the true problem, mental health is put into place. A visible guardman may help until that day.

    Um, if you suggest it, and others agree with that suggestion, then you certainly think it’s a viable solution.

    If I don’t want something I don’t do it for a while because I think it might be a temporary solution/bandaid. I simply don’t do it, because I know that temporary solution usually morphs into it’s own problem.

    Ok you have dazzled us with history lessons and voiced that our “solutions” i.e. conversation on ideas to try to help solve the problem before us are a poor solution. You still have yet to answer the Q you put forth to the rest of us who clearly can’t come up with a viable solution, albeit temporary, in your eyes. Trap asked it earlier, yet you have chosen not to give an answer. Why is that?

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    Maybe that sounded snarky. Not my intention. Truly, ready to listen to solutions.

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