Home Forums Hunting Firearms Legislation Florida mass shooting

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  • Avatardogdown
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    Post count: 673

    Quote by: papadude

    WHAT CAUSES THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS???????
    When people go back to parenting their children instead of keeping them drugged to control bad behavior, maybe then the number of these shootings will drop. When I was a child we didn’t get drugs when we did something wrong we were punished. And I don’t want to hear “they won’t let me correct my kids”. You don’t have to beat a child to teach them right from wrong.

    But Prozac, Zoloft and Luvox are not the answer. Just my opinion, BUT.

    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold�¢ï¿½ï¿½s medical records have never been made available to the public.

    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather�¢ï¿½ï¿½s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    Bingo, an answer to one of my earlier questions. Mix mind control drugs and video games and what do you come up with?

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    Quote by: papadude

    WHAT CAUSES THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS???????
    When people go back to parenting their children instead of keeping them drugged to control bad behavior, maybe then the number of these shootings will drop. When I was a child we didn’t get drugs when we did something wrong we were punished. And I don’t want to hear “they won’t let me correct my kids”. You don’t have to beat a child to teach them right from wrong.

    But Prozac, Zoloft and Luvox are not the answer. Just my opinion, BUT.

    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold�¢ï¿½ï¿½s medical records have never been made available to the public.

    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather�¢ï¿½ï¿½s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

    Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

    Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

    This looks like the perfect opening statement for any Senator on either side that truly wants to start the HONEST discussion on how we begin to come together and have a real conversation about what some want to label gun violence. Thanks for posting papa.

    AvatarducksNbucks
    Participant
    Post count: 65

    This sheriff sums it up pretty well.

    https://youtu.be/goS4Fj8l4lA

    AvatarRGR175
    Participant
    Post count: 160

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: RGR175

    My vision of things: “Boom, Boom, Boom!” over the intercom you hear the announcement “Active shooter”. The teacher locks the door, proceeds to her desk, places her palm on a biometric safe. It unlocks. She pulls out a firearm and on the panel on the side presses a 6 digit code into a small pad that unlocks the firearm for use. The teacher moves to the door to defend the class. If that teacher chooses to, she can enter the hallway and engage the attacker and possibly end the threat. This same situation occurs in 20 of the other 60 class rooms in the school for the teachers who have chosen to take the steps to be responsibly armed and pass the required certification. A group of three teachers saw a shooter pass their hallway and made the choice to group up and pursue the shooter and engage them.

    To me, this shows a complete lack of understanding of most individuals in society and why the left thinks the good guy with a gun scenario is ludicrous. Real life an’t the movies.

    You can find example after example of normal everyday people doing extraordinary things in situations like this. Who am I lacking an understanding of? Real life is usually crazier and more unbelievable than the movies. People can step up and why? Love. Friendship. Caring for others. Teachers care for their kids. Do you not think, that if capable, some teachers could defend our kids? They do it now and they did it in Florida but all they could do is be a body shield and take bullets to let others live. Are you telling me that these heroes can do that but not be able to shoot a gun back because this is Hollywood talk and real people aren’t like that? Is that what you’re trying to convince me of?

    Here is a quoted text from another forum of a teacher and his or her views on their students and protecting them. Love can make people like this stand and protect their students. Not some idea of Hollywood movies.

    Quoted text below.
    “After Sandy Hook, we had a training on active shooter situations. The police officer running it actually told us to stab a crazed gunman in the eye with a pencil (how would I get that close to him armed only with a pencil?) or to throw wooden baby blocks or glue bottles at them (what effect would that have?). I sometimes look around the classroom at my students and wonder what I would do to protect them. I spend more time with these kids than some of their parents do. I know their favorite foods, what they dreamt about last night, what they want for Christmas, who their best friend is that day. I know I would not hesitate to put myself between them and a gunman. The plan I have in my head right now is to lock them in the closet with my assistant, barricade the door, and hide behind the barricade to confront the shooter if he breaches the defenses. I know that I would probably not make it in that scenario, but there aren’t many good options.

    Most teachers would not hesitate to sacrifice themselves for their students. It’s like the captain of a ship. If a ship goes down with people on board, the captain better damn be among them. You font abandon your charge. And I get that. But I would like a little extra security. I want something to even the odds. I want to be able to bring and secure my CCW and have it ready should it ever be needed. Because my Glock .45 will protect me much better than a pencil and some baby blocks.”

    These are just people, not Hollywood actors. I’d put my money that the majority of them have it in them to help, fight and protect when it hits the fan. We hear of it in all of these shootings. The courage of teacher or students who could have fled but instead held doors shut or covered friends sacrificing themselves for others.

    Movies eh? Nope. Real people. Extraordinary situations.

    AvatarBrownItsDown
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    Post count: 1066

    Kudos to all who have invested time in this conversation. For the most part, it’s all been great dialogue.

    Culturally, there are countless things that we should change in order to combat this depravity. Many of which have been identified and discussed in this topic. I am a huge supporter of positive cultural changes being made, however, realistically, I’m not going to hold my breath or put many of my eggs in this basket.

    Banning semi-automatic rifles is not the solution, is unconstitutional, and dangerous. The 2nd Amendment, as it was written, is as pertinent today as it was the day it was ratified. Every argument in opposition to this are quickly defeated in debate.

    Borrowing from ideas discussed in this topic, here are a few ways that we could deter these mass school murders from occurring: (Quickly implemented and budget friendly.)

    1. Place 1 or multiple armed National Guard men/women at main entry points of all public schools. Screen all people entering, similar to how courthouse entries are screened today. If this means use of metal detectors, banning certain items, capping the size of backpacks, etc., so be it.

    2. Lock all other entry points and establish security devices on them to stop unauthorized entry. Similar to many office buildings today.

    3. Make annual self defence and firearm handling courses mandatory for all faculty, and support qualified faculty to conceal carry.

    Make it so our schools are no longer Soft Targets… If these ideas are implemented, it will deter or stop these mentally deranged, evil, school kid murdering cowards from carrying out these types of massacres.

    Avatardogdown
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    What about every willing, able, and properly trained teacher with a securely fastened biometric handgun safe bolted to there desk.
    For all those that say all they need is there shotgun or pistol, are you going to buy that new Remington or Mossberg shotgun with the detachable 20 rnd magazine?
    Wouldn’t that make a great deer gun. What about blowing a door open, think of the numbers. You get that new shotgun, and then the Democrats don’t think you need it. But what, it’s the gun i hunt with. I don’t deer hunt, what purpose does anybody have owning one. You don’t need 20 rounds to shoot a deer. If your that bad of a shot, you shouldn’t be hunting. logging off now, be back later to hear your arguments and bs. Won’t change my mind thou, I see no purpose for one. By the way, your shotgun was already on the assault weapon list if it had a pistol grip and know a detachable mag, done deal.

    AvatarBrownItsDown
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    Post count: 1066

    Quote by: dogdown

    What about every willing, able, and properly trained teacher with a securely fastened biometric handgun safe bolted to there desk.
    For all those that say all they need is there shotgun or pistol, are you going to buy that new Remington or Mossberg shotgun with the detachable 20 rnd magazine?
    Wouldn’t that make a great deer gun. What about blowing a door open, think of the numbers. You get that new shotgun, and then the Democrats don’t think you need it. But what, it’s the gun i hunt with. I don’t deer hunt, what purpose does anybody have owning one. You don’t need 20 rounds to shoot a deer. If your that bad of a shot, you shouldn’t be hunting. logging off now, be back later to hear your arguments and bs. Won’t change my mind thou, I see no purpose for one. By the way, your shotgun was already on the assault weapon list if it had a pistol grip and know a detachable mag, done deal.

    dogdown, Your entire statement is unintelligible. You are NOT the type of person any sane person should want involved in the promotion of any type of legislation. Please educate yourself before you re-join the rest of us in this conversation.

    Avatardogdown
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    Quote by: BrownItsDown

    Quote by: dogdown

    What about every willing, able, and properly trained teacher with a securely fastened biometric handgun safe bolted to there desk.
    For all those that say all they need is there shotgun or pistol, are you going to buy that new Remington or Mossberg shotgun with the detachable 20 rnd magazine?
    Wouldn’t that make a great deer gun. What about blowing a door open, think of the numbers. You get that new shotgun, and then the Democrats don’t think you need it. But what, it’s the gun i hunt with. I don’t deer hunt, what purpose does anybody have owning one. You don’t need 20 rounds to shoot a deer. If your that bad of a shot, you shouldn’t be hunting. logging off now, be back later to hear your arguments and bs. Won’t change my mind thou, I see no purpose for one. By the way, your shotgun was already on the assault weapon list if it had a pistol grip and know a detachable mag, done deal.

    dogdown, Your entire statement is unintelligible. You are NOT the type of person any sane person should want involved in the promotion of any type of legislation. Please educate yourself before you re-join the rest of us in this conversation.

    Why is that, I’m using the same excuse I hear coming from the non AR users on this forum. Apparently your a deer hunter. Brown it’s down. Also, the way it looks, you don’t want someone that cares about YOUR Second Amendment Rights. That’s ok, I’ll fight for right.
    Also, Freedom Of Speech, you heard of it, originates from the same place as the amendment you apparently don’t care about.

    AvatarBrownItsDown
    Participant
    Post count: 1066

    Quote by: dogdown

    Quote by: BrownItsDown

    Quote by: dogdown

    What about every willing, able, and properly trained teacher with a securely fastened biometric handgun safe bolted to there desk.
    For all those that say all they need is there shotgun or pistol, are you going to buy that new Remington or Mossberg shotgun with the detachable 20 rnd magazine?
    Wouldn’t that make a great deer gun. What about blowing a door open, think of the numbers. You get that new shotgun, and then the Democrats don’t think you need it. But what, it’s the gun i hunt with. I don’t deer hunt, what purpose does anybody have owning one. You don’t need 20 rounds to shoot a deer. If your that bad of a shot, you shouldn’t be hunting. logging off now, be back later to hear your arguments and bs. Won’t change my mind thou, I see no purpose for one. By the way, your shotgun was already on the assault weapon list if it had a pistol grip and know a detachable mag, done deal.

    dogdown, Your entire statement is unintelligible. You are NOT the type of person any sane person should want involved in the promotion of any type of legislation. Please educate yourself before you re-join the rest of us in this conversation.

    Why is that, I’m using the same excuse I hear coming from the non AR users on this forum. Apparently your a deer hunter. Brown it’s down. Also, the way it looks, you don’t want someone that cares about YOUR Second Amendment Rights. That’s ok, I’ll fight for right.
    Also, Freedom Of Speech, you heard of it, originates from the same place as the amendment you apparently don’t care about.

    Unintelligible – Definition: not intelligible; not capable of being understood.

    It was impossible for me to decipher, from your original statement, that you were speaking in support of the 2nd Amendment. I’m a strong proponent of Freedom of Speech, but it’s beneficial for all when said speech is intelligible.

    Avatardogdown
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    Quote by: BrownItsDown

    Quote by: dogdown

    Quote by: BrownItsDown

    Quote by: dogdown

    What about every willing, able, and properly trained teacher with a securely fastened biometric handgun safe bolted to there desk.
    For all those that say all they need is there shotgun or pistol, are you going to buy that new Remington or Mossberg shotgun with the detachable 20 rnd magazine?
    Wouldn’t that make a great deer gun. What about blowing a door open, think of the numbers. You get that new shotgun, and then the Democrats don’t think you need it. But what, it’s the gun i hunt with. I don’t deer hunt, what purpose does anybody have owning one. You don’t need 20 rounds to shoot a deer. If your that bad of a shot, you shouldn’t be hunting. logging off now, be back later to hear your arguments and bs. Won’t change my mind thou, I see no purpose for one. By the way, your shotgun was already on the assault weapon list if it had a pistol grip and know a detachable mag, done deal.

    dogdown, Your entire statement is unintelligible. You are NOT the type of person any sane person should want involved in the promotion of any type of legislation. Please educate yourself before you re-join the rest of us in this conversation.

    Why is that, I’m using the same excuse I hear coming from the non AR users on this forum. Apparently your a deer hunter. Brown it’s down. Also, the way it looks, you don’t want someone that cares about YOUR Second Amendment Rights. That’s ok, I’ll fight for right.
    Also, Freedom Of Speech, you heard of it, originates from the same place as the amendment you apparently don’t care about.

    Unintelligible – Definition: not intelligible; not capable of being understood.

    It was impossible for me to decipher, from your original statement, that you were speaking in support of the 2nd Amendment. I’m a strong proponent of Freedom of Speech, but it’s beneficial for all when said speech is intelligible.

    If you look at my past postings you will only see that I am strong 2nd Amendment and stronger AR. I thought the sarcasm was apparent.

    WhipWhip
    Participant
    Post count: 2381

    I have been a teacher since 1978 with 3 years out of teaching to cowboy and work in the oil field I have completed nearly 37 years in public school. Obviously help for persons suffering from mental illness is still a high priority and should be instituted. We need to be able to share information on students with suspected mental illness with local authorities without fearing lawsuits for breaking confidentiality under FERPA or IDEA. I don’t have much time left before I retire and never imagined I would be around to see this become necessary.

    Whip

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    For those that say no one is coming after anyone’s guns, the conversation on Meet the Press this morning literally referenced the fact that the only difference between the US and other countries and how we supposedly are the only country with gun violence is the 2nd Ammendment and that maybe we should look at changing that so we are more like other countries.

    Avatardogdown
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    Unfortunately, the mentality is that where the United States and it will never happen here. Until we change that mentality amongst gun owners, the possibility gets closer and closer every time there’s a shooting. There’s only 2 things certain in life and that is death and taxes.

    AvatarBrownItsDown
    Participant
    Post count: 1066

    Quote by: Whip

    I have been a teacher since 1978 with 3 years out of teaching to cowboy and work in the oil field I have completed nearly 37 years in public school. I was opposed to arming staff for many years mainly because I just didn’t want to admit how broken some of our students and society as a whole has become. I’m not a great AR fan but I do own one just don’t shoot it as well as my other guns. I don’t blame the guns but do understand how much devastation a high capacity firearm in the wrong hands can accomplish. Those that want to do this type of crime will find another way to accomplish it. The only way to stop an evil person with a weapon from harming others is a good person with a gun. So its time in my opinion to arm teachers. I was on our local Sheriffs Search and Rescue for 20 years. We often searched in remote areas with grizzly bears etc and were authorized after a 80 hour firearms course to carry firearms as a special deputy. I feel that some teachers could be trained to help provide additional insurance against an armed assailant. Its not a duty to be lightly assigned but I do feel we have folks who could do this. We have many military veterans in our school now. My state of Wyoming has already passed legislation allowing local schools to arm teachers. Several districts have already done so and if what I read this weekend on the local Facebook page is any indication we will soon be doing the same. Obviously help for persons suffering from mental illness is still a high priority and should be instituted. We need to be able to share information on students with suspected mental illness with local authorities without fearing lawsuits for breaking confidentiality under FERPA or IDEA. I don’t have much time left before I retire and never imagined I would be around to see this become necessary.

    Whip, first of all, THANK YOU. My wife gave up her career to home school our children, and I have an entirely new respect for teachers because of it. Public school teachers must endure all of the additional constraints, put upon them by the public school system, that we don’t. So, I tip my hat to you for sticking with it for so many years.

    You’re right, it is extremely sad that we have gotten to this point, but unfortunately we’re here, and, you’re right again, the proper measures must to be taken to defend our schools.

    Thanks again.

    AvatarBrownItsDown
    Participant
    Post count: 1066

    Quote by: mhock

    For those that say no one is coming after anyone’s guns, the conversation on Meet the Press this morning literally referenced the fact that the only difference between the US and other countries and how we supposedly are the only country with gun violence is the 2nd Ammendment and that maybe we should look at changing that so we are more like other countries.

    I spend a good chunk of time daily keeping up with the news, and I agree with what you’re saying mhock. The masses are pissed off and place total blame on the ‘evil AR Devil guns’, and the masses are growing and growing. The hypocrisy is, it’s going to take the use of guns, among other weapons, to try and confiscate our guns from us. I’m not sure how I see that one playing out in the MSM, but it’s not going to go well, that’s for certain.

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