Home Forums Hunting Firearms Legislation Florida mass shooting

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  • Avatardogdown
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    Post count: 673

    Quote by: CRIA1576

    Mr. Twister-

    I started this thread asking members of the site a specific question around defensive measures that would prevent school violence. The point is that our children should feel safe at school, and the only way to prevent shooters from entering is by implementing screenings (metal detectors, scanners, you choose the technology) and full time security similar to TSA agents at the airport.

    Based on the your previous responses you believe guns are the problem and cited a couple of countries as examples. You are welcome to continue to express your opinion, but there are very few folks on this site that are going to support wholesale gun confiscation or mandatory buy-back programs as a means to reduce gun violence in this country.

    You asked what we should do about the problem of mass shootings? IMO and I don’t speak for anybody on the site the suggestions below are easily implemented low hanging fruit.

    1. Immediately implement student screenings and full time security at every school entrance and exit
    2. Lock school doors when classes commence in the morning and after they close for the day
    3. Mandate gun safety and handling classes for all teachers whether they choose to carry or not
    4. Hire plain clothes security to monitor hallways during classes
    5. Install cameras, ballistic glass, and call boxes at the main school entrance

    These measures would dramatically reduce gun violence in our schools. They would also be effective when, not if, perpetrators illegally acquired guns on the black market in your gun confiscation utopia.

    My $.02

    A very viable plan. Common sense approach. I like it. My .02

    AvatarMr. Twister
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    Post count: 216

    I agree with your immediate measures.

    Avatarkenhump
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    Post count: 12769

    Best defense is a good offense.

    riverriver
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    Post count: 1155

    Quote by: RGR175

    Quote by: river

    Quote by: RGR175

    Quote by: river

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: river

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: river

    There is a root to this problem and nobody is ever going to talk about it. Nobody

    River

    Apparently you won’t either. 🙄

    Eh? Speak up. I can’t HEAR you. 🙄

    Do you have a point? Suggestion? Solution? Contribution? Anything?

    I certainly do. And thanks for questioning me. I think my point is evident, my suggestions are few, solutions are nil. I’d like to think I can contribute some how, some way. And I pray this humble post is a start. You’re smart ‘setter. I know that from reading stuff here on this site. Between you and I let’s get something started. Let’s find a fix. Let’s talk about it.

    River

    You point is not evident at all. Ideas are not difficult to spell out, so spell it out.

    What is the root to this problem that you alluded to but did not specify. We all come from different backgrounds and upbringing. What you assume I know you should know is not always what I know you know?

    So spell it out. The problem is: __________

    Is it liberals? Democrats? Gun Crazies? Lack of fathers? Lack of extreme gun control? Gun culture? Non citizens? Certain races? The NRA? Gangs?

    Sheesh man, just give an answer or say your idea instead of being so cryptic. We’re adults here. We can have a conversation.

    I reckon you’re right. I need to be clear so first I’ll address the point I was trying to make and that was for us all to come clean. To take on the most difficult subjects and hash it all out like men/women. You know.. look evil in the eye and never blink.

    “Is it liberals? Democrats? Gun Crazies? Lack of fathers? Lack of extreme gun control? Gun culture? Non citizens? Certain races? The NRA? Gangs?” Your words!. All one sided um… talking points? You’re better than that. Point for point: I’m a registered Democrat, own guns, raised my only son alone, & work almost daily with immigrants. Though I am white I have native American blood in my veins and have African American nieces. I look at people and see humans. (I had to learn that and I did).

    So… Can I spell it out? “The problem is: __________” … you ask? I’ll try to answer. The problem is: We aren’t very kind these days. Be kind it can go a long ways.

    With all that said I believe this entire thread is headed in the right direction. Smart, passionate, thoughtful discussion leads to understanding and enlightenment.

    Peace,
    River

    My words? One sided? Talking points? You say I’m better than that?

    You missed the point. I specifically was not one sided as I clearly used both sides of the political discussion in my examples (NRA, Gun Culture contrasts against Liberals or Democrats) in an attempt to say to you, nothing is really off limits here (if discussed in and adult manner). That list was me saying here is a shotgun blast of suggestion, if its one of them, lets talk about it. I have NO idea how you arrived at the conclusion that my phrasing was somehow some attempt to use a talking point in a manner that I should be better than that to use as you say that I should be in your comment “You’re better than that”. I’m basically saying, what is it you’re not willing to spell out and talk about? Is it this? or this? or this? Just say it man. I’m better than that??. . . its like were speaking different languages.

    So after all the people who asked what your point is, all the quoted text, after you saying no one will ever talk about it, the HUGE reveal is: “Be kind”

    *insert squinty eye you cant be serious face*

    Well, ok yeah, I agree. We should be nice. It would probably go a long way with preventing people from getting outraged and killing each other. I mean that. In this particular case in Florida, many said the shooter was someone who was bullied. I dont think we see many captains of the football team with hot girlfriends blowing up the place. It’s usually the odd kids that I’m sure some folks picked on and generated resentment in them.

    Glad we had the courage to get that controversial subject out into the open. I understand your hesitation and am inspired by your courage of bringing the message of “be kind” to the masses. :-/

    I feel bamboozled.

    I see your point RGR175

    I only said there is a root to this problem. Trying to stimulate some thought on the subject. I was cynical and believed that no one would go beyond the thoughts and prayers standard. Someone else added… The problem is: _________

    I’m trying hard to find the answer and trust everyone else is to. And I suggested we be kind in the pursuit. I want to fight the good fight
    Thx,
    River

    Avatarcage
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    Post count: 103

    Trump needs to get into action. Immediately have school gun free zone signs removed. Start getting willing teachers trained and armed, Get armed security at all schools. The cowards only attack at schools because they know there is no one there with a gun to shoot back. People want action now! He should make it happen. Almost all the celebrities and politicians who are making the most noise have armed security. They think they are more important than the children.

    Avatardoubledrop
    Participant
    Post count: 315

    Cowards…. That is exactly what these shooters are .Trying to prove how tough and bad they are, being the one in power, the one for that one moment everyone is afraid off, getting the ultimate respect by attacking the helpless. People like this will avoid any target as soon as it is defended and search for victims that can’t fight back. With this in mind any steps taken to protect our schools should be very effective. But it will just cause a shift to another soft target. Again we are just seeing one symptom of the overall problem.

    Avatardogdown
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    As reported, the shooter took an Uber to school and carried rifle in a backpack. A metal detector or imager would have stopped this at the door. A smaller maximum size backpack requirement would prevent a rifle from being carried in. Pistol yes. That’s where the detector comes into play.

    SpringerluvrSpringerluvr
    Participant
    Post count: 12

    There is no one solution to mass shootings in the US…just like there is no one solution to health care, immigration, etc. But, there ARE reasonable things that can be done to help mitigate the problem. For example, I personally don’t own an AR-15 or similar weapon and I question the need for them, but I also don’t think it is reasonable to ban them entirely. However, the fact you can buy an AR-15 before you can buy a beer in the state of FL is totally ridiculous to me. There should be a federal minimum age of 21. Bump stocks…ban ’em. Schools…security needs to be beefed up significantly. If our kids can carry cell phones, they can bring a security badge to school and scan into the building. Does that cost a lot of money…absolutely. But if schools can find the way to build fancy gyms and buy scoreboards with video electronics, they can find a way to invest in the security of our kids. It’s all about priorities. And compromise is not a bad thing.

    Avatardogdown
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    Quote by: Springerluvr

    There is no one solution to mass shootings in the US…just like there is no one solution to health care, immigration, etc. But, there ARE reasonable things that can be done to help mitigate the problem. For example, I personally don’t own an AR-15 or similar weapon and I question the need for them, but I also don’t think it is reasonable to ban them entirely. However, the fact you can buy an AR-15 before you can buy a beer in the state of FL is totally ridiculous to me. There should be a federal minimum age of 21. Bump stocks…ban ’em. Schools…security needs to be beefed up significantly. If our kids can carry cell phones, they can bring a security badge to school and scan into the building. Does that cost a lot of money…absolutely. But if schools can find the way to build fancy gyms and buy scoreboards with video electronics, they can find a way to invest in the security of our kids. It’s all about priorities. And compromise is not a bad thing.

    If you can buy an AR, than you can buy just as deadly any other gun. I use my ARs for hunting, they shoot the same common bullet that you can use in your Ruger 10/22 or your Ruger ranch. As I stated before, I use an AR for the fact of barrel twist rates and bullet weights, and I use a 10 round magazine. Do you think any of those factors are taken into consideration by mass shooters. I carry 2 high capacity magazines (more than 10) in my concealed carry. I don’t hunt with my concealed carry, but the same handgun is just as capable as mass casualty and have the same higher capacity magazines available as any AR.

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    Quote by: dogdown

    Quote by: Springerluvr

    There is no one solution to mass shootings in the US…just like there is no one solution to health care, immigration, etc. But, there ARE reasonable things that can be done to help mitigate the problem. For example, I personally don’t own an AR-15 or similar weapon and I question the need for them, but I also don’t think it is reasonable to ban them entirely. However, the fact you can buy an AR-15 before you can buy a beer in the state of FL is totally ridiculous to me. There should be a federal minimum age of 21. Bump stocks…ban ’em. Schools…security needs to be beefed up significantly. If our kids can carry cell phones, they can bring a security badge to school and scan into the building. Does that cost a lot of money…absolutely. But if schools can find the way to build fancy gyms and buy scoreboards with video electronics, they can find a way to invest in the security of our kids. It’s all about priorities. And compromise is not a bad thing.

    If you can buy an AR, than you can buy just as deadly any other gun. I use my ARs for hunting, they shoot the same common bullet that you can use in your Ruger 10/22 or your Ruger ranch. As I stated before, I use an AR for the fact of barrel twist rates and bullet weights, and I use a 10 round magazine. Do you think any of those factors are taken into consideration by mass shooters. I carry 2 high capacity magazines (more than 10) in my concealed carry. I don’t hunt with my concealed carry, but the same handgun is just as capable as mass casualty and have the same higher capacity magazines available as any AR.

    x2. A far asthe age of the individual, it doesn’t matter if he did this 2 years ago or 2 years in the future. He is a disturbed individual and should have been monitored closer than he was.

    Avatarrlcrouse
    Participant
    Post count: 329

    The short answer to the original topic is to make soft targets hard targets. That applies to all areas, malls parks etc.. That will cost big money that people aren’t willing to spend. Here in Waukee they approved a big bond issue for a new school. Think if they said we want the money to fortify our current schools against violence it would have passed?? Go to your local court house and see what it takes to get into there and that’s what the school entry should look like. Here in Polk county there are several Deputies manning the metal detectors. The kids should get at least what judges and lawyers get.

    AvatarBushFamilyNine
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    Post count: 354

    Well, the only complete solution is to restore the church to its full voice and unobstructed influence in this country…

    But in its absence, these can work…
    Solution number 1: Good parenting
    Solution number 2: Firearms education

    A variety of ARs make up half of my firearms collection. None of my weapons have killed anyone, and none of my 8 kids have ever used or talked about using a weapon as a tool of revenge or intimidation.

    No act nor ordinance of government can ever make up for lack of parenting and personal responsibility.

    If none of the three mentioned solutions are followed, we are just chasing the rabbit down its hole. Always following and never catching it.

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    Here in Boone, we were going to have a mock shooting. There was a letter sent out to the parents letting us know this was a possiblity. They were asking for volunteer students to be “actors” to play victims that would wear make up to make it realistic. This would be in conjunction with the local Police Dept and 1st responders. Never happened to the scale that was proposed because a few parents didn’t want their children to experience the trauma. Talk about missing the point of the exercise.

    AvatarBrownItsDown
    Participant
    Post count: 1066

    Quote by: BushFamilyNine

    Well, the only complete solution is to restore the church to its full voice and unobstructed influence in this country…

    But in its absence, these can work…
    Solution number 1: Good parenting
    Solution number 2: Firearms education

    A variety of ARs make up half of my firearms collection. None of my weapons have killed anyone, and none of my 8 kids have ever used or talked about using a weapon as a tool of revenge or intimidation.

    No act nor ordinance of government can ever make up for lack of parenting and personal responsibility.

    If none of the three mentioned solutions are followed, we are just chasing the rabbit down its hole. Always following and never catching it.

    Nailed it!

    papadudepapadude
    Participant
    Post count: 274

    WHAT CAUSES THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS???????
    When people go back to parenting their children instead of keeping them drugged to control bad behavior, maybe then the number of these shootings will drop. When I was a child we didn’t get drugs when we did something wrong we were punished. And I don’t want to hear “they won’t let me correct my kids”. You don’t have to beat a child to teach them right from wrong.

    But Prozac, Zoloft and Luvox are not the answer. Just my opinion, BUT.

    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold�s medical records have never been made available to the public.

    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather�s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

    Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

    Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

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