Home Forums Hunting Firearms Legislation Florida mass shooting

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  • AvatarBrownItsDown
    Participant
    Post count: 1066

    Quote by: nahdogg

    Quote by: Mr.+Twister

    In a study one out five have a mental condition. Think of your four friends. If they seem normal then you are the one and no guns for you.

    http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/issues/state-mental-health-america

    Yeah, here’s another startling statistic. 25% of women are on anti-psychotic medications, that means a staggering 75% are untreated. I’ll be here all week, don’t forget to tip your waitress.

    So called ‘Mental Illness’ is an ‘Effect’. If you really want to make change, treat the ‘Effect’, but also identify and target the ‘Causes’ of the ‘Effect’, or else you’ll never make any real change. Think about asbestos and it’s link to lung cancer. If we only treat lung cancer patients, but continue using asbestos as usual, how do we ever truly make a dent in the disease?

    The US is a pill popping culture. Thank BIG Pharma and corrupt politicians for that. That doesn’t mean that 1 in 4 women ‘should’ be on anti-psychotic meds.

    Most trolls don’t wonder far from their bridges, so I imagine you’ll be here all this week, and following weeks to come.

    Avatarnahdogg
    Participant
    Post count: 212

    Quote by: BrownItsDown

    Quote by: nahdogg

    Quote by: Mr.+Twister

    In a study one out five have a mental condition. Think of your four friends. If they seem normal then you are the one and no guns for you.

    http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/issues/state-mental-health-america

    Yeah, here’s another startling statistic. 25% of women are on anti-psychotic medications, that means a staggering 75% are untreated. I’ll be here all week, don’t forget to tip your waitress.

    So called ‘Mental Illness’ is an ‘Effect’. If you really want to make change, treat the ‘Effect’, but also identify and target the ‘Causes’ of the ‘Effect’, or else you’ll never make any real change. Think about asbestos and it’s link to lung cancer. If we only treat lung cancer patients, but continue using asbestos as usual, how do we ever truly make a dent in the disease?

    The US is a pill popping culture. Thank BIG Pharma and corrupt politicians for that. That doesn’t mean that 1 in 4 women ‘should’ be on anti-psychotic meds.

    Most trolls don’t wonder far from their bridges, so I imagine you’ll be here all this week, and following weeks to come.

    Brown that was a joke. And I wasn’t trolling Twister except about his VOX link.

    AvatarMr. Twister
    Participant
    Post count: 216

    So if we could cure all mental illness or keep guns out of their hands then we can reduce mass shooting about 15%. How ya gonna reduce the other 85%?

    llewellinsetterllewellinsetter
    Blocked
    Post count: 2514

    Anything the government says that has to do with mental illness is a joke.

    A person that takes anxiety meds for simple issues, a person that gets a medical marijuana card because they have cancer or a soldier that has been in combat that has trouble dealing with the sights and sounds of society is can be deemed as having mental illness and blocked from getting a firearm, yet they think it’s perfectly normal for a man to want to be a woman and create legislation that forces the rest of the country to accept this mental illness. Understand? This is the decay we are living in.

    Sarcasm entails a few things: one of them is intellect, another one is a sense of humor, and a third - not taking things too personally.

    AvatarMr. Twister
    Participant
    Post count: 216

    So how are we gonna fix or do we just get used to the bloodshed or place guards everywhere?

    llewellinsetterllewellinsetter
    Blocked
    Post count: 2514

    Quote by: Mr.+Twister

    So how are we gonna fix or do we just get used to the bloodshed or place guards everywhere?

    You haven’t been paying attention.

    Sarcasm entails a few things: one of them is intellect, another one is a sense of humor, and a third - not taking things too personally.

    AvatarMr. Twister
    Participant
    Post count: 216

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: Mr.+Twister

    So how are we gonna fix or do we just get used to the bloodshed or place guards everywhere?

    You haven’t been paying attention.

    So your first post said there is no solution. Sorry I did not realize that you were posting for the heck of it.

    AvatarRGR175
    Participant
    Post count: 160

    Quote by: river

    Quote by: RGR175

    Quote by: river

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: river

    Quote by: llewellinsetter

    Quote by: river

    There is a root to this problem and nobody is ever going to talk about it. Nobody

    River

    Apparently you won’t either. 🙄

    Eh? Speak up. I can’t HEAR you. 🙄

    Do you have a point? Suggestion? Solution? Contribution? Anything?

    I certainly do. And thanks for questioning me. I think my point is evident, my suggestions are few, solutions are nil. I’d like to think I can contribute some how, some way. And I pray this humble post is a start. You’re smart ‘setter. I know that from reading stuff here on this site. Between you and I let’s get something started. Let’s find a fix. Let’s talk about it.

    River

    You point is not evident at all. Ideas are not difficult to spell out, so spell it out.

    What is the root to this problem that you alluded to but did not specify. We all come from different backgrounds and upbringing. What you assume I know you should know is not always what I know you know?

    So spell it out. The problem is: __________

    Is it liberals? Democrats? Gun Crazies? Lack of fathers? Lack of extreme gun control? Gun culture? Non citizens? Certain races? The NRA? Gangs?

    Sheesh man, just give an answer or say your idea instead of being so cryptic. We’re adults here. We can have a conversation.

    I reckon you’re right. I need to be clear so first I’ll address the point I was trying to make and that was for us all to come clean. To take on the most difficult subjects and hash it all out like men/women. You know.. look evil in the eye and never blink.

    “Is it liberals? Democrats? Gun Crazies? Lack of fathers? Lack of extreme gun control? Gun culture? Non citizens? Certain races? The NRA? Gangs?” Your words!. All one sided um… talking points? You’re better than that. Point for point: I’m a registered Democrat, own guns, raised my only son alone, & work almost daily with immigrants. Though I am white I have native American blood in my veins and have African American nieces. I look at people and see humans. (I had to learn that and I did).

    So… Can I spell it out? “The problem is: __________” … you ask? I’ll try to answer. The problem is: We aren’t very kind these days. Be kind it can go a long ways.

    With all that said I believe this entire thread is headed in the right direction. Smart, passionate, thoughtful discussion leads to understanding and enlightenment.

    Peace,
    River

    My words? One sided? Talking points? You say I’m better than that?

    You missed the point. I specifically was not one sided as I clearly used both sides of the political discussion in my examples (NRA, Gun Culture contrasts against Liberals or Democrats) in an attempt to say to you, nothing is really off limits here (if discussed in and adult manner). That list was me saying here is a shotgun blast of suggestion, if its one of them, lets talk about it. I have NO idea how you arrived at the conclusion that my phrasing was somehow some attempt to use a talking point in a manner that I should be better than that to use as you say that I should be in your comment “You’re better than that”. I’m basically saying, what is it you’re not willing to spell out and talk about? Is it this? or this? or this? Just say it man. I’m better than that??. . . its like were speaking different languages.

    So after all the people who asked what your point is, all the quoted text, after you saying no one will ever talk about it, the HUGE reveal is: “Be kind”

    *insert squinty eye you cant be serious face*

    Well, ok yeah, I agree. We should be nice. It would probably go a long way with preventing people from getting outraged and killing each other. I mean that. In this particular case in Florida, many said the shooter was someone who was bullied. I dont think we see many captains of the football team with hot girlfriends blowing up the place. It’s usually the odd kids that I’m sure some folks picked on and generated resentment in them.

    Glad we had the courage to get that controversial subject out into the open. I understand your hesitation and am inspired by your courage of bringing the message of “be kind” to the masses. :-/

    I feel bamboozled.

    AvatarRGR175
    Participant
    Post count: 160

    Quote by: northwoodsbucks

    I dont agree with lewellin on everything, but I sure do agree that I don’t want to live where there is military posted at school daily. That is not a picture of freedom and not a normal that I want people getting used to because that is a slippery slope, armed military deployed full time on US soil to keep the peace is not a big reach from martial law. Next time there is a movie theater or mall shooting we can add some there as well. Then on street corners in major cities.

    I dont know that there is an across the board policy answer to solve it, but this sure isnt it.

    I watched one of the recorded videos of the shooter right in the hallway shooting through a door or the wall. Rounds were hitting a laptop on desk and the kids were on the floor hiding. I dont think anyone in that room was shot, but you could hear the cries. You could hear the helplessness. The helplessness stood out. There was a monster outside the door and no one could do a thing about it. It was pure vulnerability.

    That is the problem. Vulnerability. It’s a gun free zone. It’s weak. It’s easy to exploit and there is little to no means to neutralize a threat.

    Adding the capability to neutralize a threat like this, is the solution that can save lives.

    Currently, when a shooting and the slaughter is 2-3 minutes long, help is only a phone call plus 5-10 minutes away. That doesn’t appear to be working for us. The damage starts with the first shot and can continue until that shooter is down. We need to decrease that time by sending bullets, or whatever, in the other direction. You have to stop the threat.

    How?

    Certified and trained individuals. Be they teachers on staff, ex cops, ex military, volunteers or a combination of all. Force no one. I dont want a gun hating teacher forced to be armed. I want to see a serious training, including marksmanship, urban shooting considerations training, ballistic training that covers the behavior of bullets when shot at materials you would find in a school, the use of deadly force laws, the whole shebang. I would like to see a certification and training program that gives those teachers who are willing to step up and possibly defend our schools, the skills they need to responsibly carry and be an option to protect our kids. Were OK with cops running into the school with guns when something goes down. Lets put together a 2, 3 or 4 week course that teachers could attend that bring them up to speed on what a police officer would be trained on to respond to a situation like this. I’m not saying make full on cops, I’m saying invest time in training for the relevant subjects related to dealing with an active shooter situation on a school campus. You can also have safes with locks at the teacher desk. You could implement biometric controls. Could even be a case for a use of newer tech gun lock technology that may be able to prevent a student breaking in and using the firearm. Something that would require an authorized person to unlock or activate.

    We have to shoot back quicker or the casualty numbers will be high. Ban all the guns and there will still be guns. That is not a feasible option. We protect money better than we currently protect our kids. Thats not right.

    My vision of things: “Boom, Boom, Boom!” over the intercom you hear the announcement “Active shooter”. The teacher locks the door, proceeds to her desk, places her palm on a biometric safe. It unlocks. She pulls out a firearm and on the panel on the side presses a 6 digit code into a small pad that unlocks the firearm for use. The teacher moves to the door to defend the class. If that teacher chooses to, she can enter the hallway and engage the attacker and possibly end the threat. This same situation occurs in 20 of the other 60 class rooms in the school for the teachers who have chosen to take the steps to be responsibly armed and pass the required certification. A group of three teachers saw a shooter pass their hallway and made the choice to group up and pursue the shooter and engage them.

    If that was possible, it could get rid of the hopelessness and vulnerability I know our kids have right now because there is this loud and illogical section of our culture that believes ALL guns are bad. No, its just the ones in the hands of the bad guys that are bad and we make it worse by taking them out of the hands of the good guys and gals. Arm the teachers, protect the kids. Have the option to fight back. Phone calls and hiding is all we have now if you’re lucky. If you get caught in the halls or elsewhere, you got nothing. No fight back. No options. Just vulnerability and hopelessness.

    TLDR: Kill them back and do it quickly.

    Avatarwalleyewacker
    Participant
    Post count: 19

    We have a lot of unemployed veterans that would make great guards for the schools. God bless to all affected.

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    Quote by: RGR175

    Quote by: northwoodsbucks

    I dont agree with lewellin on everything, but I sure do agree that I don’t want to live where there is military posted at school daily. That is not a picture of freedom and not a normal that I want people getting used to because that is a slippery slope, armed military deployed full time on US soil to keep the peace is not a big reach from martial law. Next time there is a movie theater or mall shooting we can add some there as well. Then on street corners in major cities.

    I dont know that there is an across the board policy answer to solve it, but this sure isnt it.

    I watched one of the recorded videos of the shooter right in the hallway shooting through a door or the wall. Rounds were hitting a laptop on desk and the kids were on the floor hiding. I dont think anyone in that room was shot, but you could hear the cries. You could hear the helplessness. The helplessness stood out. There was a monster outside the door and no one could do a thing about it. It was pure vulnerability.

    That is the problem. Vulnerability. It’s a gun free zone. It’s weak. It’s easy to exploit and there is little to no means to neutralize a threat.

    Adding the capability to neutralize a threat like this, is the solution that can save lives.

    Currently, when a shooting and the slaughter is 2-3 minutes long, help is only a phone call plus 5-10 minutes away. That doesn’t appear to be working for us. The damage starts with the first shot and can continue until that shooter is down. We need to decrease that time by sending bullets, or whatever, in the other direction. You have to stop the threat.

    How?

    Certified and trained individuals. Be they teachers on staff, ex cops, ex military, volunteers or a combination of all. Force no one. I dont want a gun hating teacher forced to be armed. I want to see a serious training, including marksmanship, urban shooting considerations training, ballistic training that covers the behavior of bullets when shot at materials you would find in a school, the use of deadly force laws, the whole shebang. I would like to see a certification and training program that gives those teachers who are willing to step up and possibly defend our schools, the skills they need to responsibly carry and be an option to protect our kids. Were OK with cops running into the school with guns when something goes down. Lets put together a 2, 3 or 4 week course that teachers could attend that bring them up to speed on what a police officer would be trained on to respond to a situation like this. I’m not saying make full on cops, I’m saying invest time in training for the relevant subjects related to dealing with an active shooter situation on a school campus. You can also have safes with locks at the teacher desk. You could implement biometric controls. Could even be a case for a use of newer tech gun lock technology that may be able to prevent a student breaking in and using the firearm. Something that would require an authorized person to unlock or activate.

    We have to shoot back quicker or the casualty numbers will be high. Ban all the guns and there will still be guns. That is not a feasible option. We protect money better than we currently protect our kids. Thats not right.

    My vision of things: “Boom, Boom, Boom!” over the intercom you hear the announcement “Active shooter”. The teacher locks the door, proceeds to her desk, places her palm on a biometric safe. It unlocks. She pulls out a firearm and on the panel on the side presses a 6 digit code into a small pad that unlocks the firearm for use. The teacher moves to the door to defend the class. If that teacher chooses to, she can enter the hallway and engage the attacker and possibly end the threat. This same situation occurs in 20 of the other 60 class rooms in the school for the teachers who have chosen to take the steps to be responsibly armed and pass the required certification. A group of three teachers saw a shooter pass their hallway and made the choice to group up and pursue the shooter and engage them.

    If that was possible, it could get rid of the hopelessness and vulnerability I know our kids have right now because there is this loud and illogical section of our culture that believes ALL guns are bad. No, its just the ones in the hands of the bad guys that are bad and we make it worse by taking them out of the hands of the good guys and gals. Arm the teachers, protect the kids. Have the option to fight back. Phone calls and hiding is all we have now if you’re lucky. If you get caught in the halls or elsewhere, you got nothing. No fight back. No options. Just vulnerability and hopelessness.

    TLDR: Kill them back and do it quickly.

    While I agree wth alot of this, I fear this will stop alot of good teachers from wanting to teach or get into teaching. I would prefer the main “force” be made up of a volunteer group. Let the teachers teach, but if some or all of those teachers feel it’s part of their duties to potentially fight fire with fire, that’s great. I’m not against it.

    Avatarmhock
    Participant
    Post count: 3353

    Just heard on the news that the Dept of Justice has reported that 250 FBI workers are now investigating this shooting. A little late?

    llewellinsetterllewellinsetter
    Blocked
    Post count: 2514

    Quote by: RGR175

    My vision of things: “Boom, Boom, Boom!” over the intercom you hear the announcement “Active shooter”. The teacher locks the door, proceeds to her desk, places her palm on a biometric safe. It unlocks. She pulls out a firearm and on the panel on the side presses a 6 digit code into a small pad that unlocks the firearm for use. The teacher moves to the door to defend the class. If that teacher chooses to, she can enter the hallway and engage the attacker and possibly end the threat. This same situation occurs in 20 of the other 60 class rooms in the school for the teachers who have chosen to take the steps to be responsibly armed and pass the required certification. A group of three teachers saw a shooter pass their hallway and made the choice to group up and pursue the shooter and engage them.

    To me, this shows a complete lack of understanding of most individuals in society and why the left thinks the good guy with a gun scenario is ludicrous. Real life an’t the movies.

    Sarcasm entails a few things: one of them is intellect, another one is a sense of humor, and a third - not taking things too personally.

    AvatarCRIA1576
    Participant
    Post count: 571

    Mr. Twister-

    I started this thread asking members of the site a specific question around defensive measures that would prevent school violence. The point is that our children should feel safe at school, and the only way to prevent shooters from entering is by implementing screenings (metal detectors, scanners, you choose the technology) and full time security similar to TSA agents at the airport.

    Based on the your previous responses you believe guns are the problem and cited a couple of countries as examples. You are welcome to continue to express your opinion, but there are very few folks on this site that are going to support wholesale gun confiscation or mandatory buy-back programs as a means to reduce gun violence in this country.

    You asked what we should do about the problem of mass shootings? IMO and I don’t speak for anybody on the site the suggestions below are easily implemented low hanging fruit.

    1. Immediately implement student screenings and full time security at every school entrance and exit
    2. Lock school doors when classes commence in the morning and after they close for the day
    3. Mandate gun safety and handling classes for all teachers whether they choose to carry or not
    4. Hire plain clothes security to monitor hallways during classes
    5. Install cameras, ballistic glass, and call boxes at the main school entrance

    These measures would dramatically reduce gun violence in our schools. They would also be effective when, not if, perpetrators illegally acquired guns on the black market in your gun confiscation utopia.

    My $.02

    Avatardogdown
    Participant
    Post count: 673

    Quote by: Mr.+Twister

    So if we could cure all mental illness or keep guns out of their hands then we can reduce mass shooting about 15%. How ya gonna reduce the other 85%?

    Apparently we can’t count on the government to do it, they’ve failed in the last 2 mass shootings to stop it. It’s a proven fact that law enforcement can not travel the critical time period that counts most. Even an unarmed school resource officer won’t stop a shooter. Until we put a good guy with a gun at the scene, the causalities will be great.
    Armed teachers unknown to the pupils is the best first response. I always hear that it would not be cost affective to install metal detectors and trap doors and that tells me that the lives lost past and future are not worth it. Is disarming the public and bankrupting the gun industry cost effective. The gun industry is a major employer and the products they offer generate a lot of tax revenue.
    Does the opioid epidemic claim more lives today then gun deaths, in fact, gun deaths don’t even make the top three.
    When the church shooter with an ar was stopped by a good guy with an ar, where were the politicians, celebrities and gun haters. Do those that shout for the banning of assault rifles realize that their favorite semi pistol will be included in the ban.
    Last, I’m tired of all these self righteous listen to me celebrities calling for gun action, when someone like Kim Kardashians only contribution to society is a porn and someone like Kimmel will cry and plead gun control and then turn around and have some idiot on his show promoting their latest movie that has a good chance of having gun violence or some type of violence in it. These are the last people we need to listen to.

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